Short Track Safety

[Laura (Lori)]

This is from Guest '1' on the Olympic Trials thread:

hi lori and mtnme...

can you bring over the new topic i started in the general board @ ga...
ISU - INTERNATIONAL SKATING UNION
and my initial post...please

we gotta get everyone involved ASAP!

thanks

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I'm happy to oblige, Guest '1' - here is that initial post about ST safety:

www.isu.org/

International Skating Union
Chemin de Primerose 2
1007 Lausanne
Switzerland

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

contact them:
isu.org/vsite/vform/page/feedback/1,11038,4844-130886-132194-74548-user-feedback-start,00.html

www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vform/page/feedback/1,11038,4844-130886-132194-74548-user-feedback-start,00.html

please please please send your comments to them about raising their standards of safety for our ST speed skaters!

we can't give up just because nothings been done in the past.

also...ISU has a discussion board!!!

forums.isu.org/

let's all join and bombard the Short Track Speed Skating Topic!

[Laura (Lori)]

There is some interesting discussion going on about pads and safety at GotApolo.com on the Olympic Trials thread:

apoloohno.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1471&page=32

My favorite exchange:

From Trisha, regarding the pads in Marquette:

I remember hearing, or reading, that these new pads were tested by dropping a 70 lb weight from some height onto the pads.

From Mtnme:

(hey, I've got a better idea. How 'bout we just drop an engineer onto the pads from a height? *snicker*. I'll bet THAT would 'learn 'em' how to make some decent pads in a real hurry!)

[Laura (Lori)]

I'll add to this admittedly one-sided discussion...

I have no statistics to back this statement up, as none of my internet searches yielded times from the Turin Olympic Trials in Dec 2005, but I heard that the WINNER of the 9LTT for the last Olympic Trials would have placed in double digits at this year's Trials.

The skaters are going faster with better training, better equipment, and IMO, the padding and safety issues are struggling to keep pace.

Here in Los Angeles, we laugh at freeway construction - by the time the project is approved, the money is there, construction begins, and is (finally) finished, it's obsolete. It's a constant game of 'catch-up', and I see a correlation there with ST...

[Deleted]

...and where's the money or the corporate sponsorship to help out with this issue? Safety vs Money is always the issue.

[Laura (Lori)]

This article was forwarded to me with the request that I publish it here - I apologize that I'm just now seeing it, but I'm still playing catch-up after my trip.

It's a very thorough article written by Sue Ellis - Sue coaches speedskating clinics all over the country and is a former coach of the National Team. There are many graphics here that would take a long time to copy and paste, so I'll just give the link to the article, and the intro.

I seem to remember hearing that the entire Dutch team uses the Sebra skinsuits described here, and (I can't remember where I saw it) I've also heard that JR is using a full Kevlar suit now as well - if so, it doesn't seem to have hurt his performance.

I witnessed JR's accident, and I was intimately involved in the aftermath of another skater's devastating cut. This article is worth reading as a parent - and as a fan, it gives greater appreciation of what these athletes risk for the love of their sport. None of us would want to see the ST equivalent of Nodar Kumaritashvili - but none of us can deny that it could happen.

SAFETY! IS YOUR CHILD TRULY PROTECTED ??
By Susan Ellis

www.ellismethod.net/files/Tips/Feb10.html

Wow! I just realized this is the first time I’ve ever put an entire title of an article in capital letters and super sized it. I guess that’s how strongly I feel about this article.

Yes, the sport of speed skating has come a long way from my early days when we used hay bales for board protection, skated bare handed, with a flimsy leather helmet, and no neck, knee, shin, or cut resistant protection. But I have to say, we are nowhere near having the safety standards we need now in this sport.

I am writing this article for a couple of reasons:

1) To make parents and skaters aware of the differences in the adequacy, or lack thereof, of safety equipment and safety regulations

2)To have associations, including club, state, provincial, national, and the ISU come up with standards that will truly prevent major injury and save lives

This year alone I have witnessed two very serious accidents in which skaters were severely cut. One almost affected an Olympians career, but he was lucky in the sense that he will skate again. The other was not so lucky, and although the athlete sustained Class IV hemorrhage she did survive. This athlete** sustained a severed femoral artery and femoral vein, severed sciatic nerve, and complete severance of the ham stings, quadratus femoris, gracilis, and sartorius muscle groups. With injuries of this severity there is high potential of long term signicant disability. The irony of both incidences is that both athletes were wearing ISU Standard cut resistant suits. A couple of years ago I witnessed a cut on a young athlete extending from the top of the shoulder to below the shoulder blade. It took 65 stitches to close in a lengthy surgery.

How could this have happened??? Aren’t you protected if the International governing body says you are? As a lay parent in the sport if they tell you it is safe, you are likely to take it for granted, right? Have a look at the diagram below of the ISU Standard for areas of protection. Now look at the diagram of the major arteries of the body. The Olympian was cut above the knee in front where there was no protection. The other young athlete was cut on the back of the thigh.

[Laura (Lori)]

Here's another article about Olympics injury rates that mentions short track specifically (I posted a different article recently on the Vancouver Winter Olympics thread).

At the 2010 Games, the most dangerous sport for men was short-track speedskating, where 27.8% of the participants reported injury. At the Vancouver Olympics, the overall reported injury rate was 11% of the 2,567 involved athletes.

Given that many athletes may not have reported their injuries, this figure is regarded as being low.

The article also says that snowboard cross was the most dangerous female sport, with a whopping 73% of the 22 participants reporting injury.

Read More:
alpine-skiing.net/?tag=short-track-speedskating

Tags: Short Track Speedskating

[Laura (Lori)]

I'm copying this conversation from the American Cup 1 (2010) thread for further discussion - good topic!

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Oct 4, 2010

ryan009 wrote:

Hi!

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I was at this event and have a few questions.

First, I am a total newbie and was there because my 8 year old son was skating in his first short track event. It was great to watch him and some olympic level skaters!

However, I have to admit that the injury that occurred has my wife and I really freaked out (not to mention our son. The accident happened right in front of him and several other kids). To the point where we are trying to decide if this is the right sport for our him.

How common are these types of injuries? And, we heard about kevlar undergarments for the first time this weekend. Are these for real and do they help prevent these types of injuries?

Anyway, best wishes to the skaters that were injured and congrats to those that did so well!

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bubblebuttsbabe wrote:

Hi, ryan009! You're definitely not hijacking - just a concerned parent (just like we've all been concerned fans at one time or another).

Okay, so my opinion is not that of an expert, I've just been a fan for a while. Now having said that, I've seen injuries. However, injuries are not as common as a fall.

Injuries and falls have to do with the skaters themselves, the ice, passing, and a whole bunch of the other stuff.

I'm going to take a guess and say that these girls wouldn't have had the same injury had they fallen in a different way. That makes a difference.

I do think it's odd that this is the second thigh injury we've seen in the last year-ish though. Thigh injuries aren't all that common. To be honest, I think back injuries are the most common because of the way most skaters hit the boards. Next would probably be ankle injuries. And then sometimes there's a concussion or two - again because of the way a skater hits a board.

If there's a collision, the injuries are usually worse than if one skater hits the board by him or herself.

Also, you have to remember that the Pettit Center - sadly - doesn't NOT have a moveable pad system which lessens the blow of falls and thus changes the way injuries happen.

Kevlar is real and skaters do wear it, but as far as I can tell from USS' rules - it's not mandatory (or they just don't call it Kevlar). The mandatory equipment for safety is: headgear, shin protection, knee protection, and neck protection. I'd garner a guess though that every USS-sanctioned skater wears it.

I do believe it prevents injuries, but I can't give you an exact race off the top of my head. Sorry. Maybe someone else can remember?!

Anyway, with every sport there are chances for injury. In this case, I think you have to prepare yourself for it and know that the only thing you can control out there on the ice is yourself (or rather your son) - it's been said by almost every skater we've watched.

I think your son's young enough that injuries shouldn't be as bad because of the speed at which the younger ones skate. Maybe some more practice will ease your minds before he jumps into a meet again - if you choose to do so. :]

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Oct 5, 2010

jimwhite wrote:

I know of no USA short track facility with moveable pads. They're expensive (not the pads, but the overall infrastructure).

I believe that selection of a sport is a decision for the athlete, alone (although those who must provide money and transportation have a strong input, to those extents). I believe that we as parents should do what we can to open all the doors possible for our kids, and to kiss their owees, then to open the door again so they can go back out to play. As someone else mentioned, younger/slower skaters rarely get hurt bad. Sometimes older ones decide they're afraid, and move on to another sport (sometimes long track). Others stay in long track, get hurt, sometimes bad, but virtually always heal and return

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Laura (Lori) wrote:

Hello ryan009, and welcome to the board! (Thanks, BBB and Jim for addressing the question)

Ryan, I think your family was sitting directly to our left at the meet - we were all on the front row. You may have seen me - I was the lady who couldn't stop crying (people asked me if I was her mom, lol – but no, that’s just the way I am)... I can't even imagine how your kids felt when they saw it.

As horrific as it seemed for both of them, Katy was treated and released the same day - Liz had surgery Sunday night, and was released yesterday. They’ve both flown home - Liz will surely require some extra time, effort and tenacity in the healing process, but she should be just fine!

As the others said, at 8 years old, your son probably can't do much damage to himself other than the usual bumps and bruises that come with falls that can happen in umpteen other sports. There's no reason not to encourage him to stick with the sport long enough to decide if he likes it enough to take it to the next level.

This type of injury is rare, but it happens. The good news is that it's rarely life-threatening or life-altering. Personally, I think that football is more 'dangerous' - kids die every year just practicing football...

The kevlar suits are good protection, but I've heard more than once that they're itchy and uncomfortable - and when you're wearing something itchy and uncomfortable, you can't perform at your best. So not all skaters wear them - even when they have them - at all levels.

Pads - usually bad. Often VERY bad. The economics of ice rinks dictate multi-use facilities, meaning that most short track events take place in rinks that double as hockey rinks. They simply strap pads to virtually immovable boards. Some protection, but not nearly enough. Again, I wouldn't think this would be an issue at your son's age - and maybe (hopefully) by the time he's old enough that it would be an issue, more rinks will have safer pad systems.

Moveable pads are absolutely awesome, and I SO wish every venue could have them. I think the Utah Oval has the only moveable pad system in the USA (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). To give you an idea of the force exerted by a skater hitting the pads: I remember a skater hitting the moveable pads at the Oval - the pads themselves moved a foot or so, but an unfortunate photographer was tossed back about 5+ feet, along with his (very expensive) camera! The skater got up as if nothing had happened and finished his race. The photographer got the worst of it!

Anyhow - keep your son on the ice... enjoy it (one day at a time) and see what happens!

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ryan009 wrote:

Thanks for the feedback.

Bumps and bruises, even broken bones, we can deal with. The cut got us freaked out and then when you start researching on the internet... well lets just say only the really bad stories make it online.

He'll stay in the sport mostly because he enjoys it and that's the most important part. We are fortunate being here in Milwaukee that we have the long track. The jury is still out on how much we might want to encourage long track over short track.

My wife is calling today about one of the Sebra Suits. It might be itchy, but if it lets mom sleep at night, everyone is happier.

I can't find too much info on these suits. Would they have really stopped this kind of injury or is it more marketing?

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stepho wrote:

Ryan - best of luck with whatever your family decides. But as an inline skater, as well as a veteran of many other sports, I'd say that the number and severity of injuries in skating is equivalent to that of other sports. You, unfortunately, got the unlucky misfortune of seeing a bad one really early on. But as it was stated, she was flying home the next day. And I'd venture to say that most folks who follow short track can name every single injury of it's kind that has happened. I've been following the sport for 5 years now, and that's the only bleeding injury I've seen - there have been a few others, but very many

As for long track vs. short track - i'm guessing your kid will become more of a natural towards one or the other - they feel really different, body shape comes into play, endurance, raw speed, agility, and so on.

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Oct 6, 2010

jimwhite wrote:

The President of the West Allis club just sent an email regarding cut-resistant skins and other safety issues. If you are interested, email me ([e-mail]), and we'll try to include you in the discussion. (There are no easy/simple/good answers.)

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gofastturnleft wrote:

Kervlar is NOT an acceptable cut resistant material in our sport. I had a skater get cut this summer who had two layers on his ankle and still got cut. Right now the only cut resistant suit that offers decent cut resistance is a dyneema suit. They are not at all the same material. Sebra sells dyneema full body suits (and no, they are not itchy, kevlar is itchy). Sebra full body protection suit can be ordered from Devault Sports in Montreal, or ZT sports in Ottawa. Apogee is also coming out with a full dyneema cut resistant suit.
If you have not yet read the article on the Ellis Edge web site on safety, you should. This article will be updated soon with new info on cut resistant suits. www.ellismethod.net/files/Tips/Feb10.html

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Keep chatting, y'all!

[Deleted]

Relevant to all the comments above... check out Tony Chung's FB pic of the pad system in Quebec.

Unbelievable. We had a better pad system at the old Skating Rink I frequented back in the day!

[Laura (Lori)]

Oct 28, 2010 20:22:04 GMT -8 gasp said:

Relevant to all the comments above... check out Tony Chung's FB pic of the pad system in Quebec.

Unbelievable. We had a better pad system at the old Skating Rink I frequented back in the day!

I looked for it on FB, but couldn't find it - if it's that bad, I'm gonna say some bedtime prayers for the skaters...

[Laura (Lori)]

I started this conversation on the General ST Chat thread, but it's actually more appropriately discussed here - I'm copying the posts on the subject from that thread:

------------------------------

On April 23, 11:14pm, Laura (Lori) wrote:

I'm hearing that at the USS Spring Meeting, USS has MANDATED the use of 'cut-resistant' suits for all participants in American Cup competitions, US Championships, and Jr. US Championships.

Up 'till now, I've often heard that the skaters have opted to go with less protection in the interest of comfort and performance.

There is (apparently) no longer an option.

After seeing 3 horrific cuts - both as a spectator and as a 'host mom' - my thought is that this is a good idea, especially now that it's a level playing field for all of the skaters. What do y'all think about this rule? Should the ISU mandate this as well?

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On April 24, 10:36am, TheRockFairy wrote:

I do think it is a good idea, as it is for safety however the question would be - isnt it up to the athletes to take the risk (albeit a dangerous one) ?

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On April 25, 9:01am, Justsayin wrote:

Lori, Are we talking about full cut-resistant suits versus the current ones that are reinforced at specific places only? Surely, no one is allowed to skate without those reinforced areas, right?

I had to wonder when Apolo changed his skinsuit at the Olympic Trials on the second day of skating. On the first day he skated with the old skinsuit from his Oly Trials in 1998. Did he switch because that old skinsuit didn't meet the safety requirements?

As long as the same suit is mandatory, with absolutely no exceptions, I think it is a good idea for the ISU to adapt. However, if it is only recommended, not mandatory, you know that some skaters will abandon safety for that extra 1/100th of a second.

I can't help but feel that the stationary pad system is as big a culprit in the cut incidence. I was there too when JR was cut in Marquette and when Liz was cut in Milwaukee. Both "hits" to the pad were harder and twisted the skaters more than if they had gone into the movable pads. I can't recall an incident of a really bad cut situtation on the movable pads but I might be wrong.

[Laura (Lori)]

I think they're talking about full cut suits, but I could be wrong.

As you said, I don't remember any serious injuries when the moveable pad system is used - but they're so expensive that it's more prudent in the short term to mandate the cut suits rather than to mandate moveable pads in all venues!

BTW, I've been corrected by a couple of people that the suits aren't cut-proof - they're cut-resistant. But all the same, my watch is water-resistant, and in all the years I've worn it (showering, swimming, etc), not a drop of water has ever penetrated. The skaters are surely considerably safer with those suits than without them!

[Laura (Lori)]

As I was 'trolling' for info of interest from ISU, I ran across this - click the link:

www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-130127-131435-nav-list,00.html

Then scroll down to:

ISU Communication 1726
May 2012
Short Track Speed Skating - Rink Board Padding and Safety For Skaters

Any opinions out there on whether this will have a positive effect?

[Deleted]

If this was presented in layman terms, I would offer a response. However....I'll keep reading...but if the bottom line means improving the safety of the skaters, it's a go. Seriously...
with these new standards, do we assume there will be a "front" team arriving before every event to inspect the padding? Hmmm...

[Laura (Lori)]

This is a thread we've had open for more than 4 years, and we're still seeing problems with pad safety. The skaters are advancing in training and equipment - speeds are increasing, world records are being broken, and meets are still being held in venues with old-school padding (double-or-single-layer pads placed over stationary 'hockey' boards).

There is an interesting discussion going on at Facebook on the subject. It is a closed group, so comments are limited to members, but anyone can read (you DO have to be a logged-in Facebook member to see it):

www.facebook.com/groups/100284760075457/?hc_location=stream

If you can't access it thru the link, log into Facebook, then search for 'USS Parents and Members Page'. Good insights stated, and it brings me back to the original post in our thread here - where a Guest asked us to voice our opinions to ISU. We should continue to 'fly this flag' on behalf of the skaters who have been injured, are being injured this weekend (a top Italian skater with a broken ankle), and those who will be injured in the future if rink safety isn't keeping up with the sport's evolution...