General Short Track Chat

[mtnme]

So far, public opinion is with us on this one. No Way! They remember all too well Carter doing this, and they aren't buying it. The public seems to 'get it' that the only think that will happen if they boycott is the athletes, who had nothing to do with this political scenario, will get completely scr3wed.

[Laura (Lori)]

My hubby & I have collected Topps baseball cards for years! The ST'ers who have cards are: Lana Gehring; Jessica Smith; Allison Baver; Eddy Alvarez; J.R. Celski. If you scroll down thru the samples, you'll see J.R.'s...

Photos surface of Topps 2014 Sochi Olympics trading cards
Nick Zaccardi / NBC Olympic Talk / Jul 21, 2013, 9:47 AM EDT

olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/21/sochi-2014-winter-olympics-trading-cards-topps/

[Laura (Lori)]

Congrats to all!

Here are the Short Track skaters who were given invites to train with the National Racing Program:

Ladies - Allison Baver; Sarah Chen; Kimberly Derrick; Alyson Dudek; Lana Gehring; Emily Scott; Jessica Smith
Men - Eddy Alvarez; Kyle Carr; Keith Carroll; J.R. Celski; Chris Creveling; Travis Jayner; Cole Krueger; John-Henry Krueger; Emery Lehman; Jordan Malone; Jeff Simon

There are also a few 'former' ST skaters who have been invited to join the NRP in Long Track:
Petra Acker (All-Around); Shani Davis (Sprint AND All-Around); Jonathan Garcia (Sprint); Alex Hopp (All-Around)

US Speedskating Announces 2013-14 National Racing Program Roster and New Coaching Leadership to Guide the Team to Sochi
Guy Thibault, current Short Track Head Coach, has been promoted to the position of US Speedskating’s Short Track Program Director and Stephen Gough will step up to take Thibault’s place as Short Track National Team Coach.
Kearns, UT (PRWEB) August 01, 2013

US Speedskating, the nation’s most decorated Olympic winter sport with 85 medals and counting, today announced the list of athletes who have been named to the 2013-14 National Racing Program, an exclusive team reserved for the sport’s most elite athletes.

Read it all:
www.prweb.com/releases/2013/8/prweb10991031.htm

[Laura (Lori)]

Here's a fun set of photos from the SkateLeft blog:

skateleft.com/2013/08/07/behind-the-scenes-fun/

In the team photo (guys standing in the back, ladies crouching in the front), aren't those Dutch guys on the far right???

[Laura (Lori)]

Source: Speedskating Memes Facebook Page

Note that SSM's FB Page's cover photo is one of the um, er, more 'uncomfortable' pics I've ever seen. I think we posted it on either the Korean or Canadian threads after it happened - thankfully, the Korean skater wasn't hurt!

[osaycanusoc]

Just a personal observation and question to all -

We've just had the first major meet of the year in short track, an Olympic year. The meet was the first one webcast by US Speedskating and it used a professional organization to do it. Lots of excellent racing at the meet, and, maybe a few instances of officiating calls to discuss. Lot of interesting and exciting things going on.

AND YET, IT SEEMS SOOOO DARN QUIET!!!!!

Not much discussion at all, let alone passion for the sport or individual skaters. Odd. Is it apathy? Is it fear of speaking up? Is it disgust? Some other emotion or reason? So little response, even from the hardest of hardcore fans. Has the discussion moved somewhere else? If so, where? So little chatter to be found anywhere, formal media, social media, official sources.

Can't figure it out, any ideas?

[INTNTL]

In response to Osaycanusoc on the General Short Track thread. It is too little, too late. There is no Apolo Ohno back-story. There is no one in Short Track in the public eye, i.e. the genius appearance on Dancing With the Stars right before the athletes began training for the 2010 Olympics. There are no rabid fans starting sites such as OhnoZone and/or Got Apolo that is dedicated solely to one skater that brings fans together and peaks their interest on other up-and-coming skaters. 2010 is over and chaos has reigned supreme. No one stepped up to be a leader on the male side of the equation. Katherine, sadly, had to look at the long-term big picture and retire at a time when she was peaking into perfection on the ice! Then the over-dramatic, over-long process of grievance upon grievance and the fracturing of professional and personal friendships. Therefore, we have what we have. Many skaters pursuing their personal Olympic dream without thought to the big picture of the sport. The media loved the scandal, they don't care so much about this sport until the first day of short track competition at the Olympics. This past year has soured many ardent fans who are moving down a different path.

[mtnme]

Just 'life' in general getting in the way I think. Lauri was out of town for awhile with her young baseball proteges, I had to work, (although I did catch some of the races) and some of the fans were actually at the event (j-e-a-l-o-u-s).

Having been a part of some of the aforementioned sites in addition to this one, I can say that fandom tends to wax and wane. It is hard to keep up such a high level of participation for veeerrrryyyy long extended periods of time. There have been plenty of articles posted recently, which I've read, but didn't have the time to post them here. Those articles often spark reactions...and then conversations. But usually one fan has to get the ball rolling, and that fan has for the most part been Lori. When only a few people participate, you get burned out. I know I do. (yeah, I don't post much on Ice and Times anymore, and don't post as much as I used to here.)

Some folks lurk, preferring to read along instead of participating. Some folks follow their favorites on Facebook, and don't come to BB much. Some fans lose interest...or only give it a passing glance. And I'll call a spade a spade here, some folks close their accounts entirely when we don't bend to their wishes. It's the way of fansites I'm afraid.

But I wouldn't fret too much. Apolo may be retired, but that just opens the door wide open for the next Olympic star to make their mark. J.R. made an impression at the last Olympics (yes, there were fangirly sights dedicated to him right after Vancouver just as there were for Apolo) and the next Olympics should solidify him as another great American Short Tracker. He's been amazing since he has returned to the sport, and I don't see any reason why this bright star won't continue to shine. You just know the media is going to latch on to him now that there is such a ST superstar vacuum that was left with Apolo's retirement. (And nature - and NBC - abhor a vacuum...)

That's just the media side. Fans have their favorites. After meeting so many of the skaters, I certainly have mine. Jordan Malone did great this weekend, so happy to see him healthy and injury free and kicking boot-tay. He has a quirky sense of humor that I adore, and he never comes off as anything less than genuine. Now there's a personality that was made for media attention. Jeff Simon has the opportunity to step up and step out of Apolo's shadow, which he probably couldn't have done even if he did make the last Olympic Team since the 'story' still would have been focused on AAO no matter what. Travis had a rough weekend, but I NEVER count him out. Every time I hear someone discount him, he comes back better than ever. He's like a Timex watch. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. Chris Creveling and 'Fast Eddy' are doing great, the Kyle's and the Krueger boys are skating strong...and really, any one of these young men have the ability to make the team. I've never seen so much depth in our mens team, and now that they aren't trying to compete for the limelight against a media icon, they'll find their own opportunities to leave their mark, and make an impression.

What I am very long winded-ly saying here, is that yes, it is a bit slow now, but the Olympics is the incubator, if you will, to the birth of new fans. I know that was how I got involved with ST. I come from a figure skating background, watched that avidly...and then when they turned it into a competition for 12 year old jumping beans with no artistry or finesse, I got bored - and I lost interest. And then there was this exciting sport called short track and a charismatic star named Apolo. I started watching, I started googling, and I started reading. That's how it begins...

And lest I leave our ladies team feeling left out, they are showing themselves to be equally as deep as the men. What an incredible competition for Jess. Aly and Emily are right there giving her a run for her money, Lana certainly has proven that she has the ability, and I never would bet against Kimberly or Allison. They were injured this weekend, and if they're healthy come trials, it's anybodies game to get on the team. Lots of young up and coming skaters like Sarah and Sally...wow, when you think about it, despite all the drama of last year, they seem to be stronger than ever.

But my question is - given how tough it is for these skaters to raise money, and the corporate hype that usually surrounds an upcoming Olympics- where the heck is Cover Girl, Clinique, Mabeline? I mean seriously, have you ever seen so many pretty faces in one place? Forget Lindsey Vonn. I don't think Aly has EVER taken a bad picture in her entire life!

You want fan activism? I think a writing campaign to a bunch of make-up companies on behalf of these fresh American faces is in order. And they could use the endorsements and the bucks. Who's with me on this?

As for Katherine, it was so sad to see such a brilliant career cut short due to injuries, and ones that may well could have been avoided. Let's hope the circumstances of the last year keeps the health and well being of these young bodies in mind first and formost instead of just using them for short term gains. While no doubt this was a painful decision for her, emotionally, physically and mentally, I'm sure we will see some great prodigy coming out of her club, just as we have seen some amazing skaters coming from Anthony Barthell and Izzy's camp. The decision to 'hang 'em up' is never an easy one, but sometimes ya just gotta face reality and realize it's time to let go.

There OSay, was that enough dialog for today? (...said as OSAY's eyes glaze over...)

[osaycanusoc]

Dialogue, monologue, diatribe - it's ALL welcome! Sports are about passion and excitement which go hand in hand with fans and active engagement. I worry that those companies you so insightfully note take a look at the buzz (or lack of) and the landscape (amateurish, insincere, lame governance) and say "pass" when they shouldn't because, as you also note, there are some wonderful faces and stories and exciting races out there, deeper than ever before.

And, just to clarify - the dedicated two fans who run this board, L & M, are NOT being called out here, so don't take the question personally. You guys are great and loyal, informed, passionate, and in it for the long haul for sure! It is the rest of the fan and skating community the questions are being directed to, in general. You guys provide a great tool here for expressing interest and excitement - I'm trying to challenge the speedskating community to use it or at least explain why they have faded on engaging more.

Thanks for the note and all you have done and continue to do! Let's hope more follow your lead and step up the passion for a great sport.

[sk8er]

mtnme said it all. I think it's the personal interest in a skater that brings out the fans. Meeting them is even better. e.g. Jordan Malone is a guy to love. Great personality, backstory to touch hearts, and when he's on he skates like a cannonball. No questionable stories about him that I'm aware of...where is NBC? Everyone of these skaters has a real life, a story worth telling. I think NBC missed the boat by cutting back on the "human interest" stories during the Olympics. Human interest is what ties performance to a person. Apolo and Yuki managed and manipulated Apolo's story brilliantly, and he certainly delivered on every level. But I think J.R. Celski has as much or more native talent and he has a great family and family story that a lot more people could identify with. Young man is also easy on the eyes! And our women have gotten progressively better as a group over the last 10 years. And you know I'm ALWAYS rooting for Allison Baver!

Skating for 10 years tied me to the sport on every level. Since I hung up my skates and moved to Bend (and got out the boots and kayak) I'm not as engaged. Well, someone has to retire and I'm up for the challenge!

[Laura (Lori)]

I do know that the tight-knit fan group that some call 'The Posse' was simply otherwise occupied for this competition - myself included, for the most part. Not apathy, more a result of bad timing is all I can say... many of the most die-hard fans have never really participated here at BB, though they tell me they do read regularly. Mtnme and I are the two most vocal fans on the site, and when both of us are mum, you can sometimes hear crickets chirping, haha!

However, it's true that some of us get rather burned out (even if only intermittently), and it sometimes feels like trying to light a fire with wet matches. The daily visits to this forum are growing, but enough to make it worth the effort of continuing? I'm not sure. Even at 400-500 visits per day (which we've had at times), we're kidding ourselves if we think we're 'changing the ST world' with those numbers.

As Mtnme said, there ARE skaters (both men and ladies) who could light a fire in the Sochi Olympics - enough to keep the 'public interest' flame alive for another 4 years. Who knows what stories and performances will stir the imagination of the American Public? It really doesn't have to be an 'Apolo' story - results speak for themselves, even without a compelling backstory.

I’m hoping for (but certainly not banking on) a significant Olympic Bump at BB - I'd really love to see more member participation here, but 'voices' are not the end result I was looking for. The bottom line is that Boots & Blades started out as an archive for the individual skaters. My hope is that in the lead-up to the Sochi Olympics and in the ‘afterglow’, people will be doing internet searches for members of the Olympic Short Track team, and I'm confident that we have the best archive around for the skaters who will ultimately make the team - even if our effectiveness as a social community fails.

IMO, an 'Apolo' isn't necessary for the success of the sport. Even when Apolo was skating, there were empty seats. And in the past 4 years, there were many sellouts at the Oval - without Apolo. The sport is going to live or die based on its own merits as an exciting action sport. Can it do it? Who knows...

[mtnme]

Sept 27, 2013 14:06:26 GMT -8 sk8erfan said:

Here's an interesting story about Allison Baver's views on Sally Chea being named to the World Cup team despite the fact that she's not a US citizen and is not eligible for the 2014 Olympic team. I also find it interesting that she's on the team but not skating any races this weekend.
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2013/09/27/olympian-questions-eligibility-rules-us-speedskating/2882263/


Also, the live stream starts tonight and the good news for me is that it's available in Canada for the first time!

Unfortunately, it's not available in the US according to the website. Probably because of the icenetwork partnership and the agreement for them to show the world cups for $50 for the season. I find it interesting that the icenetwork partnership gives fans "unprecedented access" according to US Speedskating and yet all it seems to be doing is making fans have to pay to watch the competition that they could originally watch for free. Just my 2 cents...

We didn't comment on this article as we were in the middle of the competition, but it really should be addressed. I hear Baver loud and clear on this, and she has every right to be annoyed.

No Chea didn't skate. She's a wee, little thing, and therefor of no use in the relays, so she sat on the bench. For a sport that is always crying poor, USS sure found a ton of money to waste sending a skater who has no chance in hell of even competing.
Sending a skater that's not even a U.S. Citizen, personally, just frosts my @ss. We can't even afford to fund and train our own U.S. skaters, let alone other country's. I f - and when -  OUR skaters needs are met, then we can talk. Maybe...

And let's face it, this probably had more to do with funding and more importantly- retaliation. Chea won't make this Olympic Team, but I'll bet she got funding for her skating this year instead of an American skater who got scr3wed, not only monetarily, but as Baver pointed out, the actual competitions leading up to the games as well. That precious funding should have been used to support a U.S. Olympic contender. Yeah, I'm sure it's really easy to be an Olympic contender when limited funds are being funneled to non Americans. I'm also sure the American skaters are just thrilled with that...

I'll tell ya, isn't it great, that in an ever changing world, that there is one thing that you can always count on - that USS will pull the same old, same old, B.S. at every opportunity.

It's 'the rules' when they can use them to screw a skater in some way- in this case, Baver. Those last picks on the team have usually been discretionary. They took the 6th in line, for a skater who isn't even an American when it suited their purpose. Funny that USS didn't have an issue hopscotching over SEVERAL skaters on a discretionary pick for Worlds. USS's rules are so 'fluid', and purposely so, that they might as well not even bother to have any.

Here's the one long standing rule that USS has:
"We Rule. And You're F'ed"

Note to any skaters who USS is peeved with. You better place in the top 3...or USS WILL find a way to keep you off the team if they can.

As for the articles contention that this is a spiffy idea because of Belbin and Agosto, let's get real here. Tanith was a proven competitor in ice dancing at a time when the U.S. was seriously lacking in it. And she wasn't the first non US ice dancer to do it. Roca and Surr anyone? Surr (A proven Russian Ice Dancer) defected to the U.S. with every intention of living here and becoming a citizen and no real intention of competing. He paired up with Roca, and started having some great success on the national level - winning 2 US Championships. When Sur applied for citizenship so that the pair could compete in the Olympics, their main rivals for the Olympic spot were involved in a letter-writing campaign to Congress to prevent Sur from receiving expedited citizenship - and succeeded, thereby securing their own spot on the Olympic Team instead. Now there's some nasty politics for you.

My point being, Chea isn't a proven entity yet. Saying you expect her to be on the 2018 Olympic team is like me saying I 'expect' to win the lottery tonight. (Hey, I bought a ticket! It could happen!!!) But that isn't a fact, and is yet to be proven. A lot can happen in 4 years. Like so many of our skaters, she can just as easily end up injured and broken beyond repair. USS is really good at that. Grind 'em up, suck 'em dry and spit 'em out.

In the meantime, she isn't a citizen. I further question the 'She's been living here since she was a little girl'. OK then, your family needs to get off the dime and apply for citizenship. Either you're staying here ...or you're not. Make up your mind. Anyone serious about becoming a U.S. citizen would have done so already. And that's coming from a person (me) whose own family were immigrants and gave NEW MEANING to the word 'assimilate'. They had citizenship papers as soon as they were legally allowed to do so.

I don't have anything against the young lady, truly, but she needs to get that citizenship ball rolling - now - if she expects to continue to benefit from the largesse of our sports programs. Being that both USS and the USOC rely on donations from U.S. citizens and corporations for their funding, I think every American would raise an eyebrow or two to find out their donations are going to funding some other country's athletes while our own struggle. Lest I beat a dead horse here, we're the only first world country whose gov't DOESN'T fund our Olympic athletes. They've already got a tough enough row to hoe for funding without having to scrounge those few dollars available away from non US citizens.

Chea. Get your papers in order.
USS. It's a stupid rule. Fix it.
At the very least, ignore it. You seem to have no problem doing that when it suits you.
You certainly can't argue that it was to the U.S. Teams benefit to pay to fly a skater to Asia who you knew wouldn't be competing and would be sitting on the bench no matter what.
You definitely can't argue that it was to the U.S. Teams benefit to send a skater to a World Cup in an Olympic year that you also knew had no chance of competing at the Olympics.
Once again, this just smacks of politics, plain and simple.


Cynic that I am, even I had some hope for USS for a brief, shining moment. Once again, those hopes are dashed. SOS-DD

[Laura (Lori)]

I'm just checking in during a very busy night - a few thoughts: This is something that I can truly see both sides on. If Sally is expected to gain citizenship before the 2018 Olympics, I can see the wisdom of getting her as much international experience as possible. She's a lovely, sweet girl - and a talented skater who WILL BE has GREAT PROMISE to be a powerful asset for our team (edited, 'cause Mtnme's right - you never know). I'm happy that she chose to skate for USA rather than Korea. However, this really doesn't seem to be the year you'd want to have a young, inexperienced skater going to the World Cups - no matter WHAT country of citizenship. You'd want as much experience and top-of-their-game skaters as possible helping us qualify skaters for Sochi in Torino and Kolumna next month.

That being said (and in all fairness) the selection process criteria was set in place before Single-Distance Championships with no knowledge of who those skaters would be. I believe I mentioned it somewhere (maybe the SDS thread) that it appeared they were taking Top 6, straight up. No discretionary selections. We got busy with the competition, so we never had much chance to discuss it.

We've often fussed about a plethora of discretionary selections with comments like, "Why even have a competition if half the skaters are selected by committee?" (as was done a few years ago).

It seems incongruous now to fuss that they didn't make any discretionary selections.

And with all the raised eyebrows surrounding the World Championship discretionary selection last March, that skater has now contributed to Gold and Silver medals in WC's 1 & 2 - so maybe it's time to put that one to bed.

I hated the '3 discretionary skaters era', but I do think that there should ALWAYS be provisions for ONE discretionary selection. It just makes sense, especially to allow for injury to a top skater - or (in this case) so that people more knowledgeable than we are can have an opportunity to place us in the best possible position to maximize our Sochi entries. I adore Sally, but she's untested at the World Cup level - and I have to admit that does make me nervous. I'm guessing that it made the National Team coaches nervous, too - which may be why she has been lightly used in these World Cups (though she did skate in WC2).

The selection criteria put Sally on the team - and to her credit she qualified to be there, so she makes the trip. But the coaches decide who actually skates. With no discretionary selections at their disposal, they are working with the hand they've been dealt, and are entering the skaters they feel are best for the job in each situation.

Being the only country that allows non-citizens to compete for us internationally (according to the article) is, well... odd. I personally think it shouldn't be allowed - at least not at the Senior level in an Olympic season. JMO. And Mtnme, you make a good point in questioning why citizenship wasn't in the works a long time ago. Sally has been skating at top level for quite some time - was nobody thinking ahead?

One final clarification: Sally skates for SLI and I don't believe she receives any USS funds for training. For travel to these World Cups, yes - but not for training.

[Joyce]

I think there are legitimate issues on both sides. The WC team was based on performance with no discretionary pick. I agree with Lori that the "discretionary" clause has always been viewed with much skepticism by the skaters, so it would seem inopportune to raise it when a result did not go one's way, especially in a case where injury and illness was not a factor.

The world of Olympic sports is cruel - it exploits the young, rewards few, the window of opportunity is brief, and "fairness" is a foreign concept. These are all "givens" for all the athletes. Coaches, athletes, NGB's all have their own theories about success/failure probabilities. In no area is this more controversial than in the newbie vs veteran arena. Should veterans be given more consideration, should past records count or should each season start with a clean slate? I don't know.

Sally is an unknown entity, but she has a record in Juniors, she is not out of the blue. And didn't everyone start out as an "unknown entity". Nobody knew Apolo when he started. I kind of like the idea of investing in the next generation of skaters by exposing them to WC competition. Granted they will probably not excel and I know that Sally did not skate, but I am willing to bet that her learning curve for time zone travel, care of equipment, competition preparation, nutrition,etc increased dramatically ( even though she travelled with Juniors, the Senior level is different). Was this at the expense of a seasoned skater? Sally did earn 6th place without contention. Was this a poor decision during an Olympic year? I don't know since there are no sure fire formulas for Olympic success that says otherwise.

If memory serves, between SLC Olys and Torino, USS was not able to finance the team to a WC in Poland. Apolo thought it was crucial that he compete there. He offered to pay his own expenses to go and was given permission by the NGB, I believe Allison did the same. Was this an option for her this season if she felt it was crucial to train for the relay with the team?

I will not address the issue of Sally's "citizenship". While I value mine, I find that athletes seem more casual about it. And I am not familiar with worldwide WC rules. But who has not watched the Olympic "Parade of Nations" and seen incongruous athletes in adopted countries. Ahn became "Viktor" by a rushed government decree. Tatiana B skated for Australia and now for Russia. Anthony Lobello will skate for Italy. Travis Jayner hails from Canada. I am sure Sally will take care of things.

[sk8erfan]

Here's a trailer for a Short Track documentary that followed some young Short Track speed skaters from Potomac Speedskating. It will be broadcast in February on public television in the US and if anyone knows how I can watch the full documentary in Canada I'd like to know. It's definitely something I'd really like to watch!

SPEED SKATE features some of the fastest young speed skaters in the U.S and their trials and tribulations with their famous coach, Dong Sung Kim, an Olympic gold medalist from Korea. These young skaters — and their parents — devote an excess of time and money to their pursuit of making it to the Olympics. They believe Coach Kim could be their ticket there, until the relationship begins to sour. SPEED SKATE is a story about hope and ambition and determination combined with a passion for a beautiful and exhilarating sport. [USA]



The trailer is featured on International Movie Trailer Festival and is competing for a grand prize of $3000. I highly suggest you visit the website and vote for the trailer if it's something you liked: www.internationalmovietrailerfestival.com/all-trailers/speed-skate/