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Post by sk8er on May 13, 2013 10:34:41 GMT -8
Lori and mtnme provide the most coherent, fair and professional voice for Short Track fans of the many groups I've known over the past 11 years. Yes, we have differences of opinion, no we don't flame each other like "Mean Girls." This board provides investigative journalism in addition to the lighter touches. I'm totally with Lori: USS is responsible for the debacle of the past....well, years...of questionable management. Every skater deserves our support.
Hold their feet to the fire, shine the light of disclosure on operations and decisionmaking.
Thanking you both, SusanG
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Post by mtnme on May 17, 2013 7:42:39 GMT -8
Thanks all. I wasn't looking for kudos, just putting in my two cents. I'll speak for both Lori and I when I say we do appreciate the support. osaycanusoc: I agree. Sugar coating everything in the name of being 'positive' doesn't really accomplish anything, it just sweeps it under the rug for the sake of niceness. Constructive is a much better term, and much more effective. I do have a question though. It was stated further upthread that the other skaters are incurring large legal fees. I have to ask why? I'm making the assumption here that the APTE skaters didn't sue the other skaters or otherwise accuse them of legal improprieties, so my question is 'why are the hiring attorneys and accruing fees?' If they did, please enlighten me. Otherwise I am left to assume that the other skaters hired attorneys to protect their interests, in which case, it appears what others are peeved at is that the APTE's rocked the boat, causing the other skaters to do some rocking of their own. Once again, if I don't have all the info, please enlighten me. (And please don't hand me any more platitudes such as 'things aren't always as they seem'. That's not an argument, it's a cliche. An argument is backed up by facts. Let's hear some.)
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Post by mork on May 19, 2013 15:47:07 GMT -8
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Post by mtnme on May 19, 2013 17:32:46 GMT -8
Yeah, this is me being surprised. This is like bringing a lawsuit against somebody, and the person that's being sued is the judge on the case. Is there any surprise when they dismiss the charges? Excuse me when I say "Well, duh..."U.S. Speedskating panel dismisses athlete's complaintwww.chicagotribune.com/sports/olympics/chi-us-speedskating-panel-dismisses-complaint-20130517,0,7770971.story By Phiip Hersh Tribune reporter
3:44 p.m. CDT, May 17, 2013
A U.S. Speedskating panel has dismissed an athlete’s code of conduct complaint against the federation’s executive director, Mark Greenwald.
Skater Levi Kirkpatrick filed the complaint last September, alleging neglect of duty and intimidation on Greenwald’s part.
In a letter dated Jan. 7, USS vice-president Katie Traver told Greenwald a three-member panel had “found no merit in these allegations as stated and has fully dismissed this Code of Conduct against you.”
Kirkpatrick’s complaint was among several actions athletes filed late last summer against the federation, underlying long festering discontent that has compromised performances on the ice and led to a major restructuring of theorganization’s governance.
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Post by Joyce on May 20, 2013 5:56:17 GMT -8
This decision is so questionable, especially on the heels of USS boasting of sweeping changes in the way of governance. Why is USS still allowed to monitor itself and its members? Are they willing to reveal the names of the panel or the substanitive facts that led to their decision? Will responses to future challenges and appeals be solely contained in a statement of "no merit"? This does not bode well for the future. The strength of new By-Laws is not in the ink, but in execution, quality assurance for compliance and oversight. Will USS be the judge of their own effectiveness in following the new by-laws ( as yet unrevealed to the public )?
When USS made their pronouncement of big changes on FB after the Spring Board meeting - the response was underwhelming and comments of jubilation were conspicuous by their absence. It is a sad statement that concepts of fair play, safety, respect and support of athletes needed to be legislated, and not a given by their NGB. Sadder still that USS termed these concepts as "bold and historic" for them, with huge doses of self-congratulatory praise.
I would like to commend the skaters and their external support groups for all of their efforts.
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Post by osaycanusoc on May 20, 2013 10:47:39 GMT -8
Thank you Joyce, for voicing your thoughts on here. I was having the same response inside, was wondering if I was just being a bit cynical and skeptical on a personal level. But, I noticed and thought the same things as you did. It seemed like a lot of secrecy with an extra helping of hype. And, you nailed it - the execution is the key. Words are just words on a page and can be interpreted and twisted many ways. It comes down to the character, integrity, intent and ability of the people to execute that really matters. Whether it is running an organization or an athlete executing a training program, it starts with the words on paper, but the outcomes can vary widely because the execution is so dependent on the individuals.
It does seem like in the final verdict, skepticism reigns. As I talk to folks, they are not yet able to feel they can have faith in the changes. Even the big news, which of course is welcome and exciting, seems kind of contrived and recycled to give the impression of new, huge momentum and proof of results by Mike Plant. In reality, this news that NBC was broadcasting the trials was announced back in January, two months before Plant was announced as President. And, the story that ran on May 14th by Michael Lewis seemed more like reading a USS press release and not a piece of journalism. In fact, their release was a mirror of the Lewis story. It was like reading a circular, incestuous bit of reporting. It almost seems to me like they provided Lewis the story and asked that he run it - and, pure speculation here - had Mike Plant, USS, and the USOC promise him some other journalistic perks down the road in return for him publishing it. Lewis didn't ask any questions about what is in the new bylaws or why they felt it was going to be different, he just announced their PR effort for them. I wonder if he even saw the new bylaws (if so, why couldn't they be shared with the membership before they were voted on?)
This was a very tightly packaged and scripted PR effort. That is a lot easier to do (especially with a compliant or disinterested press) than to deliver on the execution. Will there indeed be more transparency, trust, integrity and athletes being put first? If they intend to make this happen, they have taken a weird first step in doing so.
Hopefully more than just their scripting and PR has gotten better (although the PR effort seems to have fallen down when it came to getting the good news out about the Hall of Fame inductions and other events taking place - it seems like the intent was to sell the BIG CHANGE and new bylaws and after that the script ended. Ooops.).
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Post by Joyce on May 20, 2013 14:55:56 GMT -8
Osay - When it comes to the USS ( or things Olympic) it would be foolhardy not to be wary. Based on its track record, common sense dictates a certain degree of skepticism. As you said, USS is run like a secret club.
I also agree that Michael Lewis is probably their "go to" person in the press, perhaps made to feel privileged to receive their "exclusives".
I am happy for the skaters and fans for the televised Trials. On the other hand the time frame is during the biggest holiday and travel periods of the year - not the best time to increase a fanbase, and viewership will need to be measured per DVR. I hope USS will release more pertinent information of "THE Changes" and not a continuous plug of "Trials are on TV"!
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Post by Laura (Lori) on May 20, 2013 21:06:59 GMT -8
Hi, All!
Thank you to all of those who privately checked on me this week - how sweet of you! My silence over the past week had nothing to do with the recent ‘dust-up’ here on the forum - I was away on a planned excursion. More than a week ago, my husband and I joined my big brother for a camping trip in remote areas of the Southeastern Utah desert, and I was ‘incommunicado’. On our few trips into Moab for gas & supplies, all I had time to do was read the forum and reply to a few messages.
Thank you to mountain-me (mtnme) for her faithfulness while I was gone - she’s more fun than I am anyway! I’m back home now - maybe I’ll post some pics from our trip later.
I also want to thank all of you who were so supportive in the past couple of weeks - publicly and privately - it means more than you can possibly know.
Gasp is a friend - a friend with a different opinion, and I’m sad that she felt that her only recourse was to remove herself from the forum. As she said, we have had ‘spirited’ discussions over the 5+ years we have been acquainted - most of them private. Perhaps it was our history from some of those private communications that caused me to assume she had directly accused me of bias. For the record, she didn’t actually use those words publicly, but I still stand by what I said above - gasp has chosen a side, and I will not ‘play ball’ with her own personal biases.
As a matter of fact, the private communications I’ve had with gasp are part of the reason I have kept a VERY open mind regarding the APTE’s overall goals. But nothing that anyone has said to me publicly or privately has changed my opinion on the merit of their grievance against USS as a whole, and I am more convinced than ever that their success will benefit all - the APTE's, the SLI's and the NRP's.
Right or wrong, I truly believe that a National Governing Body that serves its athletes and puts them first will be a successful NGB - I will ‘go to the mat’ to that end, and I know that gasp and I are on the same page in that regard. She has been a valued contributor to this forum since the day we started, and will be missed - she is more than welcome to come back at any time.
To all of you - particularly mtnme, osaycanusoc, and joyce - don’t let this post interrupt your very insightful train of thought!
Carry on…
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Post by Laura (Lori) on May 21, 2013 8:56:06 GMT -8
I was trading emails with a ST friend late into the night, but I went to bed just before my friend's final email, which was this breaking news: USOC denies motion to dismiss skaters' complaintBy Jared S. Hopkins / Tribune reporter / 12:59 a.m. CDT, May 21, 2013 A panel appointed by the U.S. Olympic Committee denied US Speedskating’s motion to dismiss a complaint from a group of speedskaters and parents who allege the sport’s national governing body continues to violate the federal act that governs amateur and Olympic sports in the United States. Read it all (you'll need to copy & paste the entire link - point-and-click won't work): www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-usoc-denies-motion-to-dismiss-skaters-complaint-20130520,0,6344183.story ---------------------- Note that this is referring to the overall grievance - which is different from the Levi Kirkpatrick vs. Mark Greenwald grievance that USS dismissed (against itself) over the weekend. Thank you, USOC, for keeping this alive - so far, so good.
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Post by Laura (Lori) on May 21, 2013 9:47:39 GMT -8
Here's another one, from NPR, about the goings-on at the Board Meeting this past weekend (thanks to the same friend for the link): Big Changes At U.S. Speedskating Body, But Scandals Lingerby Howard Berkes / May 21, 201311:39 AM Rebellious athletes, drained budgets, dysfunctional management and a string of embarrassing scandals forced a major reorganization of U.S. Speedskating over the weekend.
The group governs a sport that has produced 85 Winter Olympic medals for the United States — more than any other sport. But persistent turmoil threatened continued success in the next Games, just nine months away in Sochi, Russia.
The changes leave USS with a smaller board and without numerous committees that have permitted parochial interests to meddle in the governance of the sport.Read it all: www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/21/185773331/u-s-speedskating-body-sees-big-changes-but-scandals-linger
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Post by Laura (Lori) on May 21, 2013 15:51:46 GMT -8
This article predates the ones I posted above, but it's still worth a read: US Speedskating revamps bylawsNew president says board will monitor rather than meddle to get sport on path to successMay 18, 2013|By Jared S. Hopkins, Chicago Tribune reporter SALT LAKE CITY — The US Speedskating board of directors Saturday adopted a sweeping set of new bylaws, part of an ongoing transformation to turn around an organization long hampered with internal strife.
The changes include chopping the number of directors on the board from 14 to 10 — including revising its makeup — and eliminating many of its subcommittees, decisions designed to prevent its volunteer board from interfering in the federation's daily operations. . A new board will be elected in about a year, with new programs and initiatives, some to help raise money, being implemented before then.Read it all: articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-18/sports/ct-spt-0519-speedskating-us-20130519_1_usoc-guidelines-new-board-board-member
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Post by mtnme on May 21, 2013 18:03:22 GMT -8
Oh. My. God. There's another one???!!! Exactly how many young girls did this slime bucket accost? And this one brought charges in 1990...which as these things tend to go when it comes to women's issues, was swept under the rug ... AGAIN! You know, when the original allegations were made and Gabel immediately stepped down and admitted some degree of responsibility, in my gut, I knew something was off. I mean, seriously, how often does that ever happen? Usually it's subterfuge and denial. How much you wanna make a bet that he stepped down because he knew the full extent of the number of girls he had taken advantage of and he was just trying to stave off the inevitable blood bath if it ever came to light how extensive the list really is? 3 strikes you're out. You're officially a sexual predator...possibly a pedophile. And of course, USS is handling the issue by - not handling it. It's under 'investigation'. USS, why don't you just give up the ruse already of supposed positive changes and new structure for the board. Sounds like just more 'spin' to me. Do us all the favor and just wave the white flag already. You're completely beyond help at this point. Speedskating Board to Consider Proposal to Remove Andy Gabel from Hall of FameBy Mitch Teich "Since then, documents obtained by WUWM through a Freedom of Information Act request show that Gabel was investigated for possible inappropriate sexual contact with another minor skater at the USOEC in 1990. The name of the other skater was redacted from the documents, but WUWM was able to independently confirm that it was neither Bridie Farrell nor Nikki Meyer, and that the skater was a minor at the time. That investigation was eventually dropped for lack of evidence by Northern Michigan University, which operates the facility." www.wuwm.com/post/speedskating-board-consider-proposal-remove-andy-gabel-hall-fame
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Post by Laura (Lori) on May 27, 2013 9:19:41 GMT -8
There’s been lots of news in the past week or so - particularly the developments at the Board Meeting, the dismissal of the Code of Conduct complaint against Mark Greenwald filed by Levi Kirkpatrick, and the USOC’s refusal to USS’s request to dismiss the grievance against them which was filed by the larger group of skaters.
If any of our readers would like to offer comments on any of these developments, here are some email addresses that may be helpful (all of these email addresses are publicly available):
Scott Blackmun: Scott.Blackmun@usoc.org
John Ruger (Athlete Ombudsman): John.Ruger@usoc.org
Mike Plant: Mike.Plant@braves.com
Mark Greenwald: MGreenwald@usspeedskating.org
I know we’ve been irreverently critical of USS and at times, the USOC here on this forum - but please be civil and constructive when emailing these men directly…
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Post by been there on May 29, 2013 10:48:50 GMT -8
Lori I went ahead and did a “Mr. Selfridge” and invited Adrew Zimbalist to the forum. He is a sports economist. I have no idea if Dr. Zimbalist shall respond to my request but one doesn’t know until one asks. The act of asking does make this forum more interesting. I suspect after reading his biography at sophia.smith.edu/~azimbali/contact.html. Mtnme will require a valium. Here is the e-mail I sent to him. Dear Dr. Zimbalist I became aware of your work from our alumni magazine and a recent article in the Boston Globe. Since the strike, I have not been to a major league baseball game. Instead, I have entertained my children with short track speed skating since it was there at our local rink. Overall, our involvement in the sport has been a valuable learning experience. In some aspects, it has become too much of a learning experience. About a year ago, the elite athletes in the sport filed grievances against the coaches for abuse and US Speedskating for mismanagement. A Law firm was hired to investigate the grievances. The conclusion was that the grievances were the athletes’ opinion of the situation. The USOC brought in Mike Plant from the Atlanta Braves to restore order to US Speedskating. Here we are, within months of the Winter Olympics. US Speedskating is $750000 in debt and the athletes are divided into three camps. The sport has a fan blog at this web address therockerforum.proboards.com/ . The administrator of the forum is Laura and her e-mail address is lori@rocker-u.net. Since she is the administrator she knows more than me with what has happened in the sport. Over the past few months I have posted comments using the name “been there”. My theme has been to use ideas from the PBS television show Mr. Selfridge as a way of introducing changes in US Speedskating. Mr. Selfridge changed how people shop by creating the concept of a department store. In the last episode, Mr. Selfridge invited Sir Ernest Shackleton to give a talk in his store regarding Antarctic exploration. Are you not the Sir Ernest Shackleton of sports economics? As expected, US Speedskating is selective with what information is released to the public. From your experience, I was wondering if you could share some ideas as to where the sport is headed. As fans do we have a need to worry about the current state of affairs? In return, I expect you shall find enough material for your next book.
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Post by Buddy on May 29, 2013 14:11:59 GMT -8
Aww, geez, at first I was all excited because when I saw the name Zimbalist, I thought you were inviting Efrem Zimbalist, Jr., author of The Exorcist, into the sport to try and fix it. I was really excited and impressed with the problem solving creativity I was seeing! An exorcist is just what we need and is long overdue! Upon reading on and learning this Zimbalist is merely an economist, I had a bit of a let down.
Now, maybe before I get back to being totally depressed again, you can tell me, is this guy perhaps one of those practitioners of that Voo-Doo economics stuff? That at least offers some hope. I'm just thinking, with our problems, we need more than just an academic consultant, we need some supernatural mojo working for us, something in the category of exorcist, or, at least a witch doctor! Is he a voo-doo economist witch doctor?
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