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Post by Laura (Lori) on Jul 25, 2009 0:21:40 GMT -8
This thread is currently open to non-members for questions and comments.A LOT of people have been asking about the Olympic selection process. I did some reading, and it's starting to make some sense, so I'm gonna attempt to explain it by using a 'hypothetical' Olympic Trials... MY ASSUMPTIONS: In my examples, I used the names of all 7 ladies who competed in World Cup competition last season, 'cause I figured real names would be easier to follow than 'Skater A' and 'Skater B'. I literally 'rolled the dice' as to who finished in what position in each race, then did my calculations from there. It was actually kinda fun to see the picture unfold, just as it would in a real competition. My apologies to those who didn't make the team in my example... I'm not absolutely certain that this info is right, so I'D WELCOME ANY CORRECTIONS TO MY ANALYSIS, as well as any ideas on how to make it easier to understand! There are NO stupid questions - anything that's confusing to you might also be confusing to others, so please ask! I've used the following resources: www.usspeedskating.org/pdf/iceChips/iceChips93.pdf - starting at Pg 54, and www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-191971-209194-141143-0-file,00.pdf - ISU regs, starting at pg 80 -------------------------------------------- OVERVIEWThe USS regs indicate that the Oly Trials will be: 1) The first stage in determining 2010 Winter Olympic Games Team, and 2) The selection competition for the 2009/2010 World Cup Team and World Cups 3 & 4. Other than those skaters who might petition under the Medal Contenders clause (see below) due to illness or injury, the Olympic Team will be comprised of some combination of the winners of the Olympic Trials. World Cups 3 & 4 will determine:1) The number of skaters in total that we can send to the Olympics - based on our rankings in the Relay. The top 8 relay teams per gender will qualify to take the maximum of five (5) skaters for ladies and five (5) for men; and 2) The number of skaters qualified to compete in individual distances at the Olympics - a maximum of three (3) men and three (3) ladies per distance. Once these quotas are determined (at the World Cups), the ISU leaves it to each country's discretion as to who makes up the team, and who skates in which distance. For those decisions, USS regs state that it will use the same criteria as it uses for the Olympic Trials/World Cup team selection. ----- MEDAL CONTENDER CLAUSE: The final lineup for the Olympic team will not be final until all Medal Contender petitions have been satisfied. The clause allows for an extraordinary athlete who has been sidelined during the Olympic Trials and/or World Cups due to injury, illness or exceptional circumstance to petition for a chance to be on the team. A medal contender must have met one of the following criteria: 1) Placed in the top 2 in an individual distance at the 2009 World Championships; or 2) Earned at least three (3) podium (top 3) finishes in THE SAME distance in the 2008-2009 World Cup season. By this criteria, J.R. Celski is the ONLY skater who would or could qualify, if he had unforeseen circumstances come up (stay away from Tonya Harding, J.R.). We've wondered if Allison Baver might be able to submit a Medal Contender petition. She made the podium 3 times, but it was in 2 different events. So sadly, it seems that despite her consistency for our team last season, Allison would not qualify to submit a MC petition, and must compete in Oly Trials if she hopes to make the Olympic team. NEXT: The Olympic Trials Process(Proceed beyond this point only with a clear mind, a sharp pencil, and a calculator - it's confusing...)
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Jul 25, 2009 0:27:56 GMT -8
STAGE 1: OLYMPIC TRIALS
The Points System:
The points formulas are interesting. Some of the events are inter-related: 1) The 9-Lap TT figures into the Distance Winners for the 1000M & 1500M 2) The 4-Lap TT figures into the Distance Winners for the 500M 3) The 1000M figures into the Distance Winners for the 1500M 4) The 1500M figures into the Distance Winners for the 1000M
Points in each Distance and each Time Trial are awarded as follows: 1st – 1000; 2nd – 800; 3rd – 640; 4th – 512; 5th – 410; 6th – 328; 7th – 262; 8th – 210; 9th – 168; 10th – 134; 11th – 107; 12th – 86; 13th – 69; 14th – 55; 15th – 44; 16th – 35
The Process:
1) The 9-Lap Time Trial – the top 16 of each gender will move on, just like they do in the US Championships. They will compete in the 4-Lap Time Trial and ALL individual distances in this competition – everyone else (apparently) goes home. The 9-Lap Time Trial is also important because it will later figure into the calculation for the Distance Winners for the 1000M & 1500M.
2) The 4-Lap Time Trial – as far as I can see, the primary significance of this TT is that it will later figure into the calculation for the Distance Winner for the 500M.
3) The Distances – Each Distance is skated twice, determining the Distance Rankings and Overall Rankings. These rankings will determine the skaters who will compete in World Cups 3 & 4, and who will skate individual events there. Those not skating individual events will be available for the relay. Barring any Medal Contender petitions, our Olympic team will be comprised of some combination of these skaters.
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Let’s pretend that these are the ladies’ results from the Olympic Trials (with points earned):
BAVER: 9-Lap Time Trial – 4th (512 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 2nd (800) 1500M #1 – 3rd (640) 1500M #2 – 3rd (640) 500M #1 – 1st (1000) 500M #2 – 2nd (800) 1000M #1 – 2nd (800) 1000M #2 – 7th (262)
DERRICK: 9-Lap Time Trial – 2nd (800 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 1st (1000) 1500M #1 – 6th (328) 1500M #2 – 2nd (800) 500M #1 – 6th (328) 500M #2 – 6th (328) 1000M #1 – 3rd (640) 1000M #2 – 5th (410)
DUDEK: 9-Lap Time Trial – 7th (262 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 3rd (640) 1500M #1 – 7th (262) 1500M #2 – 5th (410) 500M #1 – 2nd (800) 500M #2 – 3rd (640) 1000M #1 – 7th (262) 1000M #2 – 2nd (800)
GARCIA: 9-Lap Time Trial – 1st (1000 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 5th (410) 1500M #1 – 4th (512) 1500M #2 – 4th (512) 500M #1 – 3rd (640) 500M #2 – 7th (262) 1000M #1 – 5th (410) 1000M #2 – 3rd (640)
GEHRING: 9-Lap Time Trial – 6th (328 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 6th (328) 1500M #1 – 1st (1000) 1500M #2 – 7th (262) 500M #1 – 4th (512) 500M #2 – 5th (410) 1000M #1 – 6th (328) 1000M #2 – 4th (512)
REUTTER: 9-Lap Time Trial – 5th (410 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 4th (512) 1500M #1 – 2nd (800) 1500M #2 – 1st (1000) 500M #1 – 7th (262) 500M #2 – 4th (512) 1000M #1 – 4th (512) 1000M #2 – 1st (1000)
SMITH: 9-Lap Time Trial – 3rd (640 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 7th (262) 1500M #1 – 5th (410) 1500M #2 – 6th (328) 500M #1 – 5th (410) 500M #2 – 1st (1000) 1000M #1 – 1st (1000) 1000M #2 – 6th (328)
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DISTANCE RANKING:
Based on the above results, the Distance Winners would be determined using the following computations:
1500M: The Formula: Final points earned in 1500M#1 + 1500M#2 + (1000M#1 + 1000M #2 + 9-Lap TT / 3). This would be the sum of the Final points of the two 1500M races plus 1/3 the sum of the Final points for the two 1000M races and the 9-Lap TT…
Example: BAVER 640 + 640 + (800 + 262 + 512 / 3) = 1280 + (1574 / 3) = 1280 + 525 = 1805
If my math is right, this is how the eight skaters would rank for the 1500M:
Reutter – 2440 (The 1500M Distance Winner) Baver – 1805 Derrick – 1745 Garcia – 1707 Gehring – 1651 Smith – 1394 Dudek – 1113
500M: The Formula: Final points earned in 500M#1 + 500M#2 + 4 Lap Time Trial
Example: BAVER 1000 + 800 + 800 = 2600
The 500M Rankings: Baver – 2600 (The 500M Distance Winner) Dudek – 2080 Smith – 1672 Derrick - 1656 Garcia – 1312 Reutter – 1286 Gehring – 1250
1000M: The Formula: Final points earned in 1000M#1 + 1000M#2 + (1500M#1 + 1500M #2 + 9-Lap TT / 3). This would be the sum of the Final points of the two 1000M races plus 1/3 the sum of the Final points for the two 1500M races and the 9-Lap TT…
Example: BAVER 800 + 262 + (640 + 640 + 512 / 3) = 1062 + (1792 / 3) = 1062 + 597 = 1659
The 1000M Rankings: Reutter – 2440 (The 500M Distance Winner) Derrick - 1745 Garcia – 1707 Baver – 1659 Gehring – 1651 Smith – 1394 Dudek – 1113
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OVERALL RANKING:
The Overall Rankings would be determined as follows:
The Formula: The simple sum of the Final points earned in all 6 races plus both Time Trials.
Example: BAVER 9-Lap Time Trial – 4th (512 points) 4-Lap Time Trial – 2nd (800) 1500M #1 – 3rd (640) 1500M #2 – 3rd (640) 500M #1 – 1st (1000) 500M #2 – 2nd (800) 1000M #1 – 2nd (800) 1000M #2 – 7th (262)
Baver’s points would be 512 + 800 + 640 + 640 + 1000 + 800 + 800 + 262 = 5454
Therefore, the Overall Rankings would be:
Baver – 5454 (The Overall Winner) Reutter – 5008 Derrick - 4634 Garcia – 4386 Smith – 4378 Dudek – 4076 Gehring – 3680
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HOW THE WORLD CUP TEAM IS CHOSEN:
1) Each Distance Winner will earn a position on the team and will be ranked based on their Overall Classification.
1500M Winner – Reutter (5008 Overall points) 500M Winner – Baver (5454 Overall points) 1000M Winner – Reutter (5008 Overall points)
So Reutter and Baver would fill the first 2 slots on the team, with Baver ranking 1st, based on higher Overall points.
SO - we currently stand at: 1) Baver 2) Reutter ...and 3 spots remaining
2) The Overall Winner will earn a position on the team.
Baver is the Overall winner, but is already on the roster, so nobody new is added, and we’d go to Step 3:
3) The next positions will come from the 2nd-Place finishers in each Distance according to their Final points earned in the Distance Classification.
The 2nd-place finishers are (with the points earned in that distance): 1500M – Baver (1805 points in the 1500M) 500M – Dudek (2080 points in the 500M) 1000M – Derrick (1745 points in the 1000M)
Dudek is the 2nd-place finisher with the highest number of Distance points, so she would take position #3 on the team.
Baver has the second-highest points, but because she is already on the team, Derrick would get spot #4...
SO - we currently stand at: 1) Baver 2) Reutter 3) Dudek 4) Derrick ...with one spot remaining, so we go to Step 4:
4) The final position will come from the 3rd place finishers according to their Overall Classification (note the switch from Distance to Overall points as a priority in this step).
The 3rd place finishers are (with the points earned in the Overall Classification): 1500M – Derrick (4634) 500M – Smith (4378) 1000M – Garcia (4386)
Derrick is the 3rd-place finisher with the most Overall points, but she is already in the lineup, so Garcia has the next-highest points total and would take the final spot.
SO - we currently stand at: 1) Baver 2) Reutter 3) Dudek 4) Derrick 5) Garcia ...in our example, the team is complete. In reality though, we may have to go to step 5...
5) If necessary, the remaining positions for the World Cups will be filled out by the highest-ranked skaters in the Overall Classification not already on the roster.
In this example, Step 5 would not be necessary because we have all 5 slots filled. The World Cup team would be (in order of rank):
1) Baver 2) Reutter 3) Dudek 4) Derrick 5) Garcia
Note that with this system, the top 5 Overall won’t necessarily be on the team - in this case, Smith, 5th Overall, was a victim of the ‘process’, and Dudek, 6th Overall, rises to a 3rd place ranking over both Derrick and Garcia.
If I’m reading this right (and barring any Medal Contender petitions) these would be the only ladies with a shot at being on the Olympic team - but they must now go on to World Cups 3 & 4 to determine how many of them we can ultimately send to Vancouver.
NEXT: The Process for World Cups 3 & 4...
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Jul 25, 2009 0:36:02 GMT -8
WORLD CUPS 3 & 4USS regs state that the starting positions for each individual distance at the World Cups is determined as follows (maximum of 3 skaters per distance, as usual for World Cups): 1) The winner of each Distance will skate each individual Distance won, thus we would have: 1500M – Reutter 500M – Baver 1000M - Reutter 2) The Overall winner will skate ALL individual Distances. Baver was the overall winner, so we would add her to the 1500M & 1000M: 1500M – Reutter; Baver 500M – Baver 1000M – Reutter; Baver 3) The remaining positions will be awarded based on the Olympic Trials Distance Rankings for each event. The top skaters in each Distance were: 1500M: 1) Reutter; 2) Baver; 3) Derrick 500M: 1) Baver; 2) Dudek; 3) Smith; 4) Derrick 1000M: 1) Reutter; 2) Derrick 3) Garcia So, the additions would be: Derrick in the 1500M; Dudek and Derrick in the 500M (Smith finished third, but because of the ‘math’ didn’t make the WC team, so I’m assuming she would not be part of the equation and Derrick would take the third slot); and Derrick in the 1000M. This would give us the following lineup in each event for the World Cups: 1500M: Reutter; Baver; Derrick 500M: Baver; Dudek; Derrick 1000M: Reutter; Baver; Derrick Garcia would be available for the relay only. 4) The coaches (as usual) have discretion as to who skates each round of the World Cup relays. ----- How Are Our Olympic Quota Slots Determined (i.e., how many skaters can we send)?It all comes down to the relay. Teams will be given points based on the normal World Cup process. The 8 countries with the most combined relay points in WC’s 3 & 4 get to send the max of 5 per gender to the Olympics. End of story. How many skaters can the US enter in individual distances at the Olympics?In each individual distance at the World Cups, points will be awarded according to the normal World Cup points process. The skaters will be ranked in each distance, as usual, over the two World Cups. For an example of this, see www.sportresult.com/federations/ISU/ShortTrack/Results.aspx?evt=11210100000029&gen=w&ref=5389&view=dcl This final Distance ranking over World Cups 3 & 4 will determine how many skaters we can enter in each individual distance at the Olympics, based on the following process: Entries for each Distance will be based on the final Distance rankings, starting with the first-place finishers in each distance, followed by the second-place finishers in each distance, etc., etc., etc., until the following quotas are reached: 1) 3 skaters per country per distance, OR 2) The total number of skaters qualified for the distance reaches 32 (500M & 1000M); and 36 (1500M), OR 3) The total number of ST ladies attending the Olympics from all teams combined reaches the ISU maximum of 60. This isn’t a very complicated process, but it is very tedious to put into an example. I played with a hypothetical scenario and found that it’s quite possible that the overall maximum quota of 60 skaters could be reached before the 32 or 36 per distance quota is reached. IMO, if any of our skaters falls below about 25th place, we’re in danger of losing a skater for that distance, especially if many different individuals are qualifying. For purposes of the ’60 max’, it seems that it would be advantageous to our team to have lots of skaters (such as Meng Wang) who qualify for multiple events, because they're only counted ‘once’ toward the 60 – this would allow more individuals who place lower in the rankings to qualify. NEXT: The Final Olympic Team Selection Process...
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Jul 25, 2009 0:45:07 GMT -8
THE FINAL USA SELECTION PROCESS (Subject to the Medal Contender Clause): Once the total number of Olympic slots has been set thru the World Cup 3 & 4 competitions, the names of the skaters who will actually go to the Games is at the discretion of USS, and is determined as follows: A) If We Qualify a Full Olympic Team (5 Per Gender):It appears per page 60 of the USS regs that the team will be selected exactly as in the Olympic Trials, which would mean (per our example) that our Olympic Team would be: Baver Reutter Dudek Derrick Garcia For Individual Distances: The Distance Rankings from the Olympic Trials will be used to determine who skates which individual distances, which would mean that it would be the same lineup as in the World Cups - as long as each of the 3 skaters ranked high enough at the WC's to earn their slot. B) If We Have to Reduce the Team Size (if we do not qualify a Relay team and thus have 3 or fewer skaters): NOTE: This is where my logic is a bit fuzzy, so this last part should be taken with a grain of salt. I didn't waste a lot of brain cells on it, 'cause IMO, it’s unlikely (knock on wood) that we’ll be subject to this ‘team reduction’ (when was the last time we didn’t finish in the top 8 in the relay? ), but hey, it could happen… If this were to happen then the Overall Rankings from the Olympic Trials will apply: If we have only 1 qualified skater: Based on our example, I'm assuming it would be - Baver If we have 2 qualified skaters: Baver & Reutter If we have 3 qualified skaters: Baver, Reutter & Dudek
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Jul 25, 2009 1:18:28 GMT -8
GOT IT?Test on Monday.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2009 12:51:19 GMT -8
Ha Ha about the Test.
First--great job Lori. Read this throughout the day at work. I'm more clear on some elements. Others I am still trying to absorb.
The best advice--yeah, J.R.,--stay away from Tonya Harding. ROTFLOL
Best way to get a real grasp on this--go to Olympic Trials first. hehehe
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Post by aaosmts19 on Jul 27, 2009 17:55:49 GMT -8
Ha Ha about the Test. Best way to get a real grasp on this--go to Olympic Trials first. hehehe Really! I would correct that by adding"....and take a notebook/pencil and sit beside Lori! Thanks Lori...my eyes started crossing at "Let's Pretend" but I'll certainly be studying up on this. Yoemen's effort in putting this together. Thanks!
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Post by susie on Aug 21, 2009 13:57:52 GMT -8
We're going to need calculators and spreadsheets. And we need to make sure that someone in each skater's camp thoroughly understands the point system and is keeping track. We don't want to have any "Liam McFarland's" in Marquette -- a skater NOT making the team because he didn't understand that he could finish in second and still be okay.
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Aug 25, 2009 9:28:52 GMT -8
...we need to make sure that someone in each skater's camp thoroughly understands the point system and is keeping track. We don't want to have any "Liam McFarland's" in Marquette -- a skater NOT making the team because he didn't understand that he could finish in second and still be okay. ITA, Susie...
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Post by aaosmts19 on Sept 9, 2009 9:11:16 GMT -8
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Sept 13, 2009 20:25:27 GMT -8
Now that Trials are over, here's an explanation of how the men's team was chosen:
Overall Rankings (Top 7): 1) Apolo Ohno - 6912 2) J.R. Celski - 5014 3) Jordan Malone - 4028 4) Travis Jayner - 3720 5) Jeff Simon - 3461 6) Simon Cho - 3278 7) Anthony Lobello - 3027
Distance Winners (Top 3):
1500M: 1) Apolo Ohno - 2733.33 2) J.R. Celski - 2346.67 3) Jordan Malone - 1395.33
500M: 1) Apolo Ohno - 2312 2) Jordan Malone - 1646 3) Simon Cho - 1590
1000M: 1) Apolo Ohno - 2866.67 2) Travis Jayner - 1587.33 3) J.R. Celski - 1573.33
1) Each Distance Winner will earn a position on the team and will be ranked based on their Overall Classification.
1500M Winner – Apolo Ohno 500M Winner – Apolo Ohno 1000M Winner – Apolo Ohno
Apolo Ohno fills slot #1 on the team, with 4 spots remaining, so we go to Step 2:
2) The Overall Winner will earn a position on the team.
Ohno is the Overall winner, but is already on the roster, so nobody new is added, and we’d go to Step 3:
3) The next positions will come from the 2nd-Place finishers in each Distance according to their Final points earned in the Distance Classification.
The 2nd-place finishers are (with the points earned in that distance): 1500M – Celski (2346.67 points in the 1500M) 500M – Malone (1646 points in the 500M) 1000M – Jayner (1587.33 points in the 1000M)
Celski is the 2nd-place finisher with the highest number of Distance points, so he would take position #2 on the team.
Malone has the second-highest points, and gets spot #3, followed by Jayner, who takes slot #4.
SO - we currently stand at: 1) Ohno 2) Celski 3) Malone 4) Jayner ...with one spots remaining, we go to Step 4:
4) The final position will come from the 3rd place finishers according to their Overall Classification (note the switch from Distance to Overall points as a priority in this step).
The 3rd place finishers are (with the points earned in the Overall Classification): 1500M – Malone (4028) 500M – Cho (3278) 1000M – Celski (5014)
Celski is the 3rd-place finisher with the most Overall points, but he is already in the lineup, as is Malone - so the final spot goes to Cho. The Olympic team, in order of rank, is:
1) Ohno 2) Celski 3) Malone 4) Jayner 5) Cho
Note that with this system, the top 5 Overall won’t necessarily be on the team - in this case, Jeff Simon, 5th Overall, was a victim of the ‘process’, and Cho, 6th Overall, made the team with a 5th place ranking over Simon.
You can follow the same process for the ladies. For them, it turned out that the Top 5 DID all make the team, though Allison Baver ended up flip-flopping with Kimberly Derrick in the Olympic Team rankings.
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Sept 15, 2009 11:33:09 GMT -8
EDIT: This calculation applies to the Olympics only, as each country was able to use its discretion as to which skaters competed in each event at WC's 3 & 4 for purposes of qualifying for Olympic slots. Next question: Who will be skating the Individual Distances at World Cups 3 & 4 (and most likely the Olympics)...USS regs state that the starting positions for each individual distance at the World Cups is determined as follows (maximum of 3 skaters per distance, as usual for World Cups): 1) The winner of each Distance will skate each individual Distance won, thus we would have: MEN: 1500M - Ohno 500M - Ohno 1000M – Ohno LADIES: 1500m – Reutter 500M – Dudek 1000M - Reutter 2) The Overall winner will skate ALL individual Distances. Ohno and Reutter were the overall winners, and are already listed for most of the Distances – the only addition in this step would be Reutter in the 500M: MEN: 1500M - Ohno 500M - Ohno 1000M – Ohno LADIES: 1500m – Reutter 500M – Dudek; Reutter 1000M - Reutter 3) The remaining positions will be awarded based on the Olympic Trials Distance Rankings for each event. The top 3 skaters in each Distance were: MEN: 1500M – 1) Ohno; 2) Celski 3) Malone 500M – 1) Ohno 2) Malone 3) Cho 1000M – 1) Ohno 2) Jayner 3) Celski LADIES: 1500m – 1) Reutter 2) Baver 3) Derrick 500M – 1) Dudek 2) Reutter 3) Gehring 1000M – 1) Reutter 2) Derrick 3) Baver So, after doing all the gyrations above, it appears that those skating the Individual Distances at World Cups 3 & 4 are identical to the order in which they finished the Individual Distances at Trials: MEN: 1500M – 1) Ohno 2) Celski 3) Malone 500M – 1) Ohno 2) Malone 3) Cho 1000M – 1) Ohno 2) Jayner 3) Celski LADIES: 1500m – 1) Reutter 2) Baver 3) Derrick 500M – 1) Dudek 2) Reutter 3) Gehring 1000M – 1) Reutter 2) Derrick 3) Baver I'm assuming that Jeff Simon will skate the 1500M & 1000M, as he is JR Celski's replacement for the World Cups while JR recuperates. 4) The coaches (as usual) have discretion as to who skates each round of the World Cup relays. If we qualify a full team of 5 women and 5 men at WC's 3 & 4, this should be the lineup for the Olympics as well. Did I get this right?
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Sept 27, 2009 15:02:14 GMT -8
The next step in the process: World Cups 3 & 4I had some fun this afternoon and 'pretended' that the results from the recently completed World Cups 1 & 2 were actually the results from World Cups 3 & 4.As always, this is my best understanding of the process, and I'd welcome any corrections!How Are Our Olympic Quota Slots Determined (i.e., how many skaters can we send)?It all comes down to the relay at World Cups 3 & 4. Teams will be given points based on the normal World Cup process. The 8 countries with the most combined relay points in WC’s 3 & 4 get to send the max of 5 per gender to the Olympics. How many skaters can the US enter in individual distances at the Olympics?In each individual distance at World Cups 3 & 4, points will be awarded according to the normal World Cup points process. The skaters will be ranked in each distance, as usual, over the two World Cups. For an example of this, see www.sportresult.com/federations/ISU/ShortTrack/Results.aspx?evt=11210200000004&gen=m&ref=6368&view=wclThis final Distance ranking (World Cup Classification) over World Cups 3 & 4 will determine how many skaters we can enter in each individual distance at the Olympics, based on the following process: Entries for each Distance will be based on the World Cup Classification, starting with the first-place finishers in each distance, followed by the second-place finishers in each distance, etc., etc., etc., until the following quotas are reached: 1) 3 skaters per country per distance, OR 2) The total number of skaters qualified for the distance reaches 32 (500M & 1000M); and 36 (1500M), OR 3) The total number of skaters attending the Olympics from all teams combined reaches the ISU maximum of 60 per gender. So - IF World Cups 3 & 4 went EXACTLY as World Cups 1 & 2 did:1) It’s quite possible that the overall maximum quota of 60 skaters could be reached before the 32 or 36 per distance quota is reached. If WC's 1 & 2 are used as an example, quota #2 was reached at just about the same time as quota #3 for both the ladies and the men. 2) For the 500M & 1000M, most of the skaters who placed in the top 35 made the cut, and the larger quota for the 1500 allowed the top 38 or 39 to make it. 3) Our finishes in the Relay (3rd for Ladies, 5th for Men) would qualify us to send a full team of 5 ladies and 5 men to the Olympics. 4) The men 'easily' earned the max of 3 slots in each Olympic distance. 5) The ladies cut it a bit closer than the men, but still would have qualified for 3 slots in each distance. I think...
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Post by sunshine on Nov 26, 2009 15:10:27 GMT -8
The ISU has just published Communication 1598 Olympic Winter Games 2010 Entries Short Track Speed Skating (allocation per country per event) and Communication 1599 World Cup Short Track Speed Skating Competitions 2009/2010 Final World Cup Classifications here's a link: www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-130127-131435-nav-list,00.html
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Post by Laura (Lori) on Nov 27, 2009 1:20:04 GMT -8
Thanks, Sunshine! USS regs state that the starting positions for each individual distance at the Olympics will be determined based on the Olympic Trials results. See www.usspeedskating.org/pdf/iceChips/iceChips93.pdf (top of page 60, and section b. on page 58). If they stick with this procedure, the skaters at the Olympics should be determined as follows: 1) The winner of each Distance will skate each individual Distance won, thus we would have: MEN: 1500M - Ohno 500M - Ohno 1000M – Ohno LADIES: 1500m – Reutter 500M – Dudek 1000M - Reutter 2) The Overall winner will skate ALL individual Distances. Ohno and Reutter were the overall winners, and are already listed for most of the Distances – the only addition in this step would be Reutter in the 500M: MEN: 1500M - Ohno 500M - Ohno 1000M – Ohno LADIES: 1500m – Reutter 500M – Dudek; Reutter 1000M - Reutter 3) The remaining positions will be awarded based on the Olympic Trials Distance Rankings for each event. The top 3 skaters in each Distance were: MEN: 1500M – 1) Ohno; 2) Celski 3) Malone 500M – 1) Ohno 2) Malone 3) Cho 1000M – 1) Ohno 2) Jayner 3) Celski LADIES: 1500m – 1) Reutter 2) Baver 3) Derrick 500M – 1) Dudek 2) Reutter (we only qualified 2 skaters in this distance) 1000M – 1) Reutter 2) Derrick 3) Baver So, after doing all the gyrations above, it appears that those skating the Individual Distances at the Olympics are identical to the order in which they finished the Individual Distances at Trials: MEN: 1500M – 1) Ohno 2) Celski 3) Malone 500M – 1) Ohno 2) Malone 3) Cho 1000M – 1) Ohno 2) Jayner 3) Celski LADIES: 1500m – 1) Reutter 2) Baver 3) Derrick 500M – 1) Dudek 2) Reutter (we only qualified 2 skaters in this distance) 1000M – 1) Reutter 2) Derrick 3) Baver This is my best understanding of the process, and I'm clueless about how substitutes will be determined if injuries prevent anyone from skating - any corrections are welcome!
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