Leigul
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Post by Leigul on May 5, 2010 11:49:10 GMT -8
Oooooo...and the plot thickens! Wow...this could really be interesting to see what happens!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2010 11:50:17 GMT -8
Here's what Dominique Dawes had to say:
It may be 10 years since she competed in the Olympics, but gymnast Dominique Dawes is thrilled about the new medal she will soon add to her collection. Dawes and her teammates were given the bronze after China was stripped of their 2000 Olympic bronze medals because they fielded an underage competitor, Dong Fangxiao.
Dawes, who has worked with Yahoo! Sports for the past two Olympics, heard the good news from another reporter.
"I got calls from fellow reporters before receiving an email from the [Gymnastics International] Federation," Dawes told Fourth-Place Medal. "I also got a call by my coach, Kelli Hill, to congratulate me on the medal."
She said that getting the medal puts a positive ending on an Olympics that had been disappointing for Team USA, which had been shut out of medals.
"It was very difficult not just for the gymnasts, but the coaches as well. When we got to Sydney, we didn't have gold medal on our minds, but we knew there was a possibility for us to get on the podium. It is good to know that now, 10 years later, we did achieve the goal that we had set out to do."
In 2000, though there had been whispers about Fangxiao's age, Dawes avoided the gossip to focus on her performances.
"As an athlete, when you're competing, you're not focused on the things you can't control," Dawes said. "Of course, I heard about the speculation of the athletes being underage. However, once I heard it, I quickly forgot about it. It was really something I didn't want to affect my performance in a negative way."
Dawes contacted teammate Elise Ray immediately after hearing about the medal, and though both women are ecstatic, Dawes can't help but find it bittersweet.
"When I look at it, there are two things that bother me. One, my teammates. This is their first medal and they didn't get to stand on the podium and have those medals put around our necks and have America watching on TV and be so proud of them, and number two, it's the Chinese gymnasts. The one thing that everyone's ignoring in this situation is that these gymnasts don't have a voice. They don't have a say. They're told that they're going to compete, and they're supposed to say they're a certain age, and it's sad. They are stripping these athletes, and they don't have a voice."
Still, Dawes said that this win will hold a special place for her among her other accomplishments in gymnastics, which includes an Olympic gold, three Olympic bronzes and three world silver medals.
"It does definitely add something different and special. I had taken a year off prior to those Olympics, and I came back after just training for four months, and I really did it for the fans because they had been such strong supporters of me throughout my Olympic career. It really is a sweet moment for me, because I was 23, I was over-the-hill, I was done, and I was really saying farewell to the fans."
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2010 11:53:38 GMT -8
IMO--at the next International Gymnastic Meet, these Bronze Medal Olympians should be honored just as though they were standing on the podium in 2000. They should have their moment. As she says, "...it's bittersweet."
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Leigul
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Post by Leigul on May 5, 2010 12:26:32 GMT -8
IMO--at the next International Gymnastic Meet, these Bronze Medal Olympians should be honored just as though they were standing on the podium in 2000. They should have their moment. As she says, "...it's bittersweet." I agree, wholeheartedly!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2010 21:41:25 GMT -8
Okay guys this gets real interesting when you go back and check the Official Results for the 1000, 1500, and the Men's Relay. Lee, Jung Su medaled in all 3 and Kwak was on the Relay team.
Therefore, if medals are returned the new standings would be:
In the 1500 Gold--Ohno Silver--Celski Bronze--Jean
In the 1000 Gold--Lee, Ho Suk Silver--Ohno Bronze--Chas Hamelin
However, this is the race in which JR was DQd in the Semis and Lee, Jung Su was in JR's HEAT. Guess we will all be watching that race again!
In the Mens Relay Gold--Canada keeps that Silver--USA Bronze--China
(FYI--the 500 is not impacted--this is the race where Korea, much like their story, fell down like a house of cards!)
The other problem we have is that Lee, Jung Su set 2 or 3 Olympic Records in Vancouver. I assume those would be abolished.
See what happens when you vow to honor the Olympic Creed and don't follow through; you screw over EVERYBODY and taint the games and your reputation!
As Gomer would say: Shame, Shame Shame. ...and ditto to Post #25 on this thread by Justsayin ...and feel free to double check my info. It's available on the VANOC site.
If it takes them 10 years to return these medals, I just wonder if they send along a Hallmark Card that, when opened, plays the National Anthem and a little US flag waves and you can hear the fans singng along then chanting USA at the end of the anthem?
Yeah--I doubt it.
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Leigul
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Post by Leigul on May 6, 2010 7:45:43 GMT -8
This saddens me! Why oh WHY can't they just play fair!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 7:55:34 GMT -8
Looks like the Associated Press has picked up on the situation. So we may be seeing this in US newspapers. What the AP article (below) adds to what we know is that the skaters, while banned from skating in any KSU sponsored events, continue to receive a government pension based on their Olympic medal wins. No mention of what the pension is for Kwak's silver medal but gold medalists receive "at least $900 per month". And building on the question about Olympic medals raised by gasp above, let's throw in the possible loss of income for the skaters. Also, if this is a domino effect, how does this potentially effect the WC standings/awards from last season? Jung Su finished first in the 1000 and 1500? Man, what a mess! Given his successes above, it appears that Jung Su is a very talented skater who was having a bad meet (as all skaters do) at their nationals. In retrospect, a big, big price to pay for making the team despite that. I know that most of us US fans were holding our breath going into the US Oly trials knowing that we had more excellent skaters than could make the team and were wondering which of our favorites might run into that "bad meet" and lose a spot that might have been theirs. Given this new perspective, I have even more respect for the skaters that gave their all, didn't make the team but left with head held high. A special nod to Anthony Lobello who manned up and shared (in the Marquette interview) how difficult that is and yet set that aside to skate with passion in the WCs to earn those spots for the US team in Vancouver. Here's the AP release: www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5je4sx0psczcu4Nef0AqSA4-ugd5QD9FH9JN00
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 14:38:24 GMT -8
On the ISU thread, Lori posted the link to the 202 page document the ISU will review and approve(?) in June during the meeting Barcelona, Spain.
Many of us have wondered whether or not medals will be forfeited regarding the Koreans, and who would make that final determination if the medals are not voluntarily forfeited.
I found this information on Page 60 of the ISU document interesting:
2. The Olympic Winter Games (OWG) The OWG are the exclusive property of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). The IOC establishes the program for the OWG in compliance with the Olympic Charter which includes only Olympic Sports governed by International Federations specifically recognized by the IOC as International Olympic Federations. The ISU is so recognized. The practical organization of the Speed Skating, Short Track Speed Skating, and Figure Skating competitions of the OWG is the responsibility of the ISU in cooperation with the IOC. The OWG skating competitions are administered by the ISU as an ISU International Competition (See Rule 126).
With that bold section in mind, one would assume ISU has the greater standing in this cause than the IOC would.
Additionally, on page 95 section 141 states that. all World Records at an ISU event...including the OWGs are registered by the ISU.
Thus it stands to reason, that if the medals are forfeited so are the Olympic Records.
I have not revisited the ISU Events that Lee Jung Su and Kwak participated in following the Korean Nationals, but one would assume the ISU would also look at those races and their outcomes.
Just more food for thought.
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Leigul
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Post by Leigul on May 6, 2010 16:08:39 GMT -8
Wow! What a deep deep mess! I do wonder what will all come of this! Will their medals be revoked? Will the records be changed? This affects SO many people and countries! What a mess!
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Post by Laura (Lori) on May 7, 2010 9:47:38 GMT -8
I saw this from The Olympic Examiner (Jeremy Freeborn)... his final line states: Because this fixing took place after the Olympics, and it happened on the South Korean national stage, Kwak's and Jeon's medals will not be affected. www.examiner.com/x-33967-Olympics-Examiner~y2010m5d6-South-Korea-suspends-short-track-speed-skaters?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitterI had originally been under the impression that the race fixing happened during the Koreans' Olympic Trials, but things I've picked up in various articles on the subject indicate that it happened in the KSU qualifying process for the World Championships - this blog seems to confirm that. They may have had a new National Team qualifier prior to the WC's, much like our AmCup Final put Kyle Carr on the USA team. Each country sets their own rules as to who qualifies. Maybe Korea's setup didn't allow Olympians to automatically qualify... Tags: Short Track Speedskating
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2010 11:13:10 GMT -8
and then some. At this point I would find it difficult NOT to believe that the Korean men knew what the "medal order", if at all possible, should be at the Olympics. Frankly--the "Korean-all-fall-down" in the 500 made me suspicious from the gate. "if I can't medal on this one, you aren't going to either. See what happens when they muck-up the works! Everything falls under the microscope.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2010 9:59:47 GMT -8
Lori, I saw that Examiner article too but am skeptical about the statement that the reporter made about the Olympic Medals. I read all the articles that have been posted here again most reference the race fixing as having occured at the National Team Selection for the 2009/2010 season which were held in April, 2009 (also their Olympic Trials). It was during this meet that two things seemed to have happened: 1. Kwak agreed to assist Jung Su Lee in a 1000 semifinal so that he would advance and earn enough points to make the National team. This would appear to be the serious infraction that got both of them the 3 year suspension. 2. A goup of coaches and skaters made an "agreement" prior to the 3000 super final, covering which skaters would win which medals in the upcoming international competitions (did this include the Olympics or just the WCs??) I suspect that his involvement in both these things is what got Jeong his permanent suspension. When World Championships came around, it would appear that Lee's debt was called in per these previous agreements and he was asked (forced) to withdraw in favor of Kwak. The article that is posted that seems clearest is this one from the Korea Times. www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/sports/2010/04/136_63879.htmlSo here is why I am skeptical about the reporter's remark that the Olympic Medals are uneffected: 1. He appears to be a desk reporter basing his story on the AP release rather than a field reporter actually involved in following the story. The AP release didn't make that statement. 2. If the only issue was what happened after the Olympics, at the World Championships as he claims, why in the world would the skaters get suspended? It would totally be the Coach's actions that were out of line. You wouldn't suspend Lee for 3 years because he was coerced to sign a statement of withdrawl or suspend Kwak for 3 years because the coach picked him to skate. The skaters would be innocent players here. The skaters suspensions came because of race fixing which happened pre-Olympics. There may have been trials for the World Championships but that is where Lee withdrew not where the race was fixed. 3. The ruling came from the KSU. It's not their perview to strip Olympic medals, even with the KOC's input. That, it would seem to me, to be the call of the IOC in conjunction with the ISU. 4. (and most glaring to me) None of the Korean media have made this statement. Knowing how rabid their fans are, I would think that they would be including that fact in every article. The punishments dealt here were very, very harsh. This paragraph in another article you posted (#18) has me wondering if this isn't why: "The content of the “agreement” made at the team trials held in April last year for the Winter Olympics is considered shocking. Shortly before the 3,000-meter super finals, the last event of the team trials, certain coaches and athletes are alleged to have agreed to help each other make the national team, and then take turns winning medals at international meets. If this is confirmed, this could mean that the results of the team trials were manipulated" yeah, but if this is true, wouldn't that mean that the results of the WCs were manipulated too? I just don't think we've heard the end of this yet.
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Post by Laura (Lori) on May 8, 2010 20:19:39 GMT -8
No, I'm sure we haven't heard the end of it! And you're right, it does appear that the race-fixing allegations were at their Olympic Trials, and not post-Olympics.
I wonder if the skaters will appeal the decision.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2010 15:04:30 GMT -8
Didn't the first Korean news article that discussed the suspensions indicate that Lee Jun Su would appal? More re-reading LOL
Justsayin'--I agree with your comments in #41 above.
There has been so much information coming down about this situation, it has been somewhat difficult to keep up with what happened when!
I am hopeful that USS is staying on top of this, and questioning this process every step of the way. I find it interesting that as much as Apolo is out in the media these days, he has not been asked about this. Of course, sometimes silence is GOLDEN! heehee
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Leigul
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Post by Leigul on May 9, 2010 19:32:09 GMT -8
I wondered about the skaters being silent about this as well! Perhaps they were asked to keep mum until they have answers to what questions will be asked???
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